When Hyeon Go was describing to Damdeok about how Baekje was divided into East and West Baekje in Episode 13 of Tae Wang Sa Shin Gi before their attack, I couldn’t help but wonder after they showed a map of Bakeje territory. Grabbed a screenshot of the clearest frame I could get.
The map as shown in the screencap shows the map that we knew all along, Baekje bordered by Shilla, Kaya and Goguyreo. What is weird is West Baekje is actually across the sea and occupies parts of East China.
And being the history buff that I am, I went and wiki information on Baekje and got the map below which showed that Baekje only had territory on the Korean penisular. Similar searches for information about West Baekje and maps yielded the same results. Everything was similar but West Baekje was not reflected.
Although controversial, some Chinese and Korean records indicate that Baekje territory included parts of present-day China, across the Yellow Sea. You can read about the history records on this in Wikipedia.
After defeating Goguryeo in 371, Baekje had become a dominant power in East Asia, whose influence was not limited to the Korean peninsula. That state’s King Geunchogo seized several coastal cities of China, notably in Liaoxi and Shandong, to retain its superiority over Goguryeo and a variety of southern Chinese dynasties, which had arisen within the context of extended civil wars caused by the fall of the Han Dynasty in 220 CE and the concomitant invasions of foreign tribes, including but not limited to the Xiongnu and Xianbei (Wu Hu). This was from Gwanggaeto the Great of Goguryeo Wiki.
I also posted the question on forums and this was the answers I got.
Answered by dramaok @ soompi forums
YES you’re right. this is controversial, but as is according to TWSSG, there is indeed West and East Baekje, which are divided by Bohai/Balhae sea. West Baekje (better known as Dae-Ryuk Baekje for Continent Baekje) would be present day Hebei, China (you know, Qingdao beer ^^). because China denies this, and Korean records that directly link to it are destroyed or missing it is very controversial and most ppl only refer to Baekje as just that, the kingdom near present day Seoul and Incheon of South Korea.
However, on closer examinations of both Chinese and Korean records, and Western scholarship, there has been many indirect links to the existence of a West Baekje, which was even greater in geography and population.
For example, Chinese scholar/librarian 宋書 recorded “Baekje is west to Yo-Ha river”.
This is another map which I got from jebusrocks @ China History Forum.
And this map shows that Baekje might have indeed splitted into West and East Baekje at the peak of its powers. So regardless whether they established permanent settlements or a few military outposts since no Baekje artifacts were found from there or not publicised by the Chinese authorities, it is true that Baekje did exert some control over parts of China sometime in the 4th century.
So despite Tae Wang Sa Shin Gi being a pure fantasy television drama, it may have some merit in not twisting history in this area. History is fascinating.
wow. Im chinese and have no idea about this =D
very interesting, but I don’t agree with you
Idetrorce
Idetrorce, you have a different opinion? what’s your take, i am interested to know…
[...] like the inclusion of China’s Shandong Peninsula into Baekje, too. I can’t wait until I see the Chinese [...]
Ha, that last map is a riot. Shouldn’t really trust sources that have “Sea of Korea” or divide Japan up as a Korean colony. Seems like nothing more than a PC banger’s fantasy.
No as a korean it’s not right to say sea of japan
it is right to say sea of korea. and baekje colonized japan
even western china korea was a very great country in ancient world, Japan? nothing to us. even China, by King Gwanggeto
they were beaten up and lost manchuria so sea of japan is not correct it is sea of korea. I just hate Japanese
I found some information on wikipedia.
(Baekje / presence on continent)
According to the Book of Song, “Goguryeo came to conquer and occupy Liaodong, and Baekje came to occupy Liaoxi (遼西) (in modern Tangshan, Hebei); the place that came to be governed by Baekje was called the Jinping District, Jinping Province.”[6] The records of Book of Jin on Murong Huang states that the alliance of Goguryeo, Baekje, and a Xianbei tribe took military action.[7] The Samguk Sagi records that these battles occurred during the reign of King Micheon of Goguryeo (309-331).
According to the Book of Liang, “during the time of Jin Dynasty (265-420), Goguryeo conquered Liaodong, and Baekje also occupied Liaoxi and Jinping, and established the Baekje provinces.”[8]
The Zizhi Tongjian, compiled by Sima Guang (1019-1086) of the Song Dynasty (960-1279), states that in 346, Baekje invaded Buyeo, located at Lushan, and as a result the people of the country were scattered westward toward Yan.[9] That year was the first year of the King Geunchogo’s reign (346-375) in Baekje.
*Yawn* Half of your sources is from wikipeidia, which I have to say is not very reliable. I remember reading about how silk was invented in Korea on the wiki.
Also that last map, I can even make a map like that now on photoshop, how is that proof? Like you said, no artifacts were found. Also, it only seems to be the Koreans that are saying all of this and backing it up. I’ve heard nothing outside of Korea. There’s also tons of speculation and assumptions derived from these texts people are quoting.
I’m not saying it’s not true. It could well be that the Chinese are not publicizing it. It’s just that there aren’t any good, reliable, UNBIASED and concrete evidence. Unless there’s some concrete proof I’d have to dismiss it.
You are right, it is “just” wikipedia.
But I wonder if the sources “Book of Jin”, “Book of Song”, “Book of Liang” and “Zizhi Tongjian” are reliable.
The author quotes them, but they are only in chinese.
I just watched this last night and I looked it up too.
While I do not trust wikipedia or majority of websites that do not have published credits to back up on information, you need to remember that the winner writes the history.
Very often, the conquers destroy history.
While I ponder about this history, I do know that a few Chinese Dynasties are established by people referred as Korean descendants (or simply Mongolians).
I believed that Japan actually accepts the fact that their royal bloodline does not Baekje blood in them
Yes, very interesting indeed. I think if you study Baekje’s history and their artifects, you will be surpirse how advanced they were. It’s sad to see they are just part of the history books.
Don’t forget, Baekje came from early days of Koguryo royal line (aka Jolbon-Buyeo), first capital of Baekje was called Buyeo. So you know how important Buyeo for Koguryo & Baekje. In native words, Koguryo is aka as Kuri or Kori and Baekje is kura or Kuda, and Shilla is aka as Silla, Sinna, Seola, hence today’s Korean capital is named Seoul from Seolabol (This is also name of Silla’s capital).
Some Koreans scholars believe Korea should adopt native Korean names for these ancient states: Kori, Kura, Kara (karak or Kaya) & Silla.
And for the Baekje’s territories that once existed on Eastern China (Shandong) isn’t just myth, but it was only very short lived territory as it quickly fall to Chinese dynasty. Just think of as like temporary port trading colonies.
When i see a conflict over history between Korea and Japan/Russia/China, i usually tend in favor of Koreans. But, trust me, this map is just a HUGE joke.
I’m not saying Baekje didn’t have any territories in China but it is clearly oversized, as is Koguryo here. And the most incredible part is the way they divided Japan. There was no Korean colonies in Japan. I know Koreans suffered from Japanese colonies but changing history this way is just nonsense.
I didn’t know buyeo occupied that much space.
ok I dont much about anything but i am very interested in reading and studying about Pre Ancient Korea – history 7000 CE through establishment of three kingdom period. anyone have places I can go find out about it? or does nayone know about it? I have found some info but some of course is contrary to others and very limited.
I am american, not chines or Korean or japanese
Ha, you Koreans are soooo funny!
As a country which is occupied, controlled, or even obused by both China and Japan for more than 2000 years from 200BC~1945AD, and then is greatly influenced by the US and Soviet Union until now. You even need 4 other countries (the US, Russia, China and Japan) involve in your own national business, you must know your history is not that glorious.
I am not here to tell you that you had a very sad history. I just hope you guys could wake up from your own dreams.
I am not sure how’s the education like in your country. But you just cannot keep stealing other countries’ history and culture.
SUCK ME DRY KUMA. You ASS!
Let me tell you about YOUR sad existence… When Korea was established already as an advanced cultural society, japan was just a measly tribal settlements with simple cast system. Through only thing the japanese peasants were good at, stealing, they hijacked cultural advancements of Koreans (i.e. Baekje’s industrial and agricultural techs) and have labeled it their own. Which is understandable considering the limitations of their aptitude and natural tendency to be arrogantly ignorant. What bothers educated individuals the most is the fact that japan’s line of royalty has Beakje’s royal blood flowing through them. In stating that native japanese people had control over any part of Korea is just what the intellectuals of your own country want you, peasants, to believe so that they may stabilize their power over the peasants (YOU). In reality, the occupation of Korea was a sad attempt by the surviving bloodline of Beakje’s royalty to reclaim their once lost kingdom from Shilla Dynasty. So, getting back to your peasent like statements, I hope you can learn from what i have generously educated you on, Shitstuffer! Yeah U…dont look around, i’m talking to you buddy, shitsucker…read some books.
The last map is total bs. I doubt baekje could even hold on to chinese cities beyond the coast. With such a small population, how would they fund and resource their troops so far away from home?
Goguryeo stopped way before taking Eastern Siberia, and I’m pretty sure Buyeo was a civilised kingdom, and it most certainly did not thrive in the barbarian steppe of siberia.
Point from before: With such a small population, how would baekje conquer so much of japan and hold it? I can understand if they conquered western kyushu but half of honshu? Very unlikely..
And what the hell is Suao Jien? Sounds fake to me. Never heard of such a country in China’s history. If he meant Westen Jin, its not possible because those coasts were definitely under china’s control during that period.
And cmon, everyone knows the ainu were under their own control for all their history.. If Goguryeo conquered them in hokkaido, why isn’t it recorded in their folktales or lore?
This problem irked me further because i saw a trailer for the kbs drama king geunchogo. Ultranationalistic depictions defile the essence of the plot. At pne part Geunchogo is seen as dreaming to conquer eastern China, Western Honshu, And all of manchuria and korea.. Now I’ll never get to watch it. It’ll be Just like Immortal Yi Sun Sin. Pure propaganda with no good plot and only minor references to historical facts.
Ridiculing our great generals like Li Rusong by making him an idiot in your dramas. Making Chen Lin incompetent and corrupted.
Bloody Koreans have no respect for your old allies or new enemies. Just like in the korean war. When the chinese fired, the Americans ducked. When the Americans fired, the chinese ducked. But when the koreans fired, Every Fucker ducked!
Stop pretending that you ruled here! You didn’t.. you know why? We LIVE here! As we have for ages, and there has been no record of a korean invasion. Don’t talk about a mass burning of records that could have hidden such a case from current academians because you and I both know that you’re just appearing to be even more naive by suggesting that. Aren’t you proud enough of your own history? What’s there not to love about korean history. Goguryeo wiped the Sui army out, and Joseon fought back the Japanese. Yi Sun Sin is the best admiral in the history of man kind. What more do you need that isn’t already god given?
Or has the years of slavery and torture and lack of independence after the fall of Silla made you people so greedy for historical superiority that you have all resorted to cultural and territorial plagiarism?
First of all, Beakje did have colonies in Japan. There was not even government in Japan untill 400 AD. Baekje brought iron, buddhism, and other cultures to japan and the crown price also came and governed the provinces in japan. Plus, Baekje retained the proivince of liaoxi and jinping for over 100 years and also had a colony( more of trading post) in Philippines. In addition, the Kaya people governed a number of japanese islands, and Okinawa. Basically, baekje was a sea empire much like phoneticians and Portuguese.
You say that there is no evidence but there are remnants of baekje culture in places as far as north vietnam and taiwan. Also, it is written in chinese records and several names of provincial governors in east china have had baekje names.
The reason much of this is not known to the western world is because the japanese completely fabricated much of korean history during its occupation. There was even a seperate department of historians aimed at distorting korean history to make it inferior to japan and to kill korean idenity, making japan look like the best country in east asia Thus, many relics were destroyed, and those that weren’t destroyed were stolen by japan where japan claimed some of korean ancient culture for their own.
Thus, Korean history is faced by China on one side that is trying to undermine Kogureyo history and trying to make it into CHinese history, and Japan on the other side that claims that Kaya was Japanese ( when in reality it was Kaya that governed parts of Japan, and Japan gave up its efforts in this field after it was obvious) and undermine the supremacy of Baekje in its sea-based empire.
Given that the japanese historians were the first to report the western world of East asian history, it is small wonder that most people have a skewed version of East asian history coming from the japanese solely. Still, korean archeologists are making progress slowly but surely, in uncovering the true extent and achievements of the Korean ancestors.
So the bottom line is, keep your mind and ears open and dont be so conservative and inflexible. Don’t be like, “oh, how come i’ve never heard of this before? so it must be false” That’s just an excuse to ignore the newly discovered truth.
Ryan…….Even the American History textbooks say that there was no organized government in Japan untill 400 AD. Think about it, why should there be a korean invasion to make parts of Japan Baekje territories when the Japanese are busy being awed by shining iron Baekje armour while the japanese were in tribal villages without knowledge of anything sharper than stone? You’ve got the perspectives wrong man.
In The Western island of Japan, many of the villagers still worship a god who was the king of the region, and who was actually the governor sent by Baekje to govern the area.
Also, btw, there ARE records of swift and powerful men on horseback with iron weapons crossing over to japan before 400 AD.
I feel your annoyance, but how can you block the sun with your hand? There is nothing wrong with having been korean colony .
Actually, Southern Japan was under Baekje rule. The people in that region themselves know this, and in fact embrace it. They have parades that cheer for the Baekje king that first found the place.
And, trash talking doesn’t prove anything. Eastern China was indeed partly in Baekje’s hands. The Chinese wrote about it themselves. Not to mention the fact that Chinese people always try to change their own history to fit their needs. For example, they consistently claim Goguryeo was Chinese. Nonsense! So, they’ve extended their Great Wall further into Manchuria now days, even over the Cheolli Janseong Wall that faced China to protect Korea from Chinese soldiers. If anyone was making this up, it was China.
Do you realize that for a good time, China had no power in North-East Asia? Don’t let present maps fool you. Chinese people originated from the South, nearby Vietnam and expanded northward.
And come on now, what’s wrong with the fact that Koreans did for a time have Manchuria, eastern China, and southern Japan? Oh, so it’s okay to say China had so much territory, but nobody else can, eh? After all, China had sent a million man army to Korea, and came back crying with 2,700 men left, partially causing the downfall of the Sui Dynasty. If Korean could do that, what makes you think that Korea cant take the offensive? Do you have real solid proof that legitimately denies it?
Hey, I understand where your coming from, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying China was a disgusting nation and Japan were full of barbarians. No. But, I am saying that Korea was more powerful than it was given credit for.
I’m an American who is a history buff. I’ve read more about European history. I do have a good understanding of cultures and backgrounds. Just watched a YouTube video – Korean History, Korean Civilization, China’s History Distortion, 한민족문명 (1/8) (English). Don’t know if this is similar to your topic, but I learned from this video. Great post! Good job.
Eastern part of china did belong to Korean Baekje Kingdom. China is superficial state. There is no such thing called China or Han-Chinese. Han-Chinese is terminology racial and cultural mixed between Koreans, Mongols, Manchurians, Asian Turkish all Altaic People that conquered the land and culture of Continent.
According to the Book of Song, “Goguryeo came to conquer and occupy Liaodong (遼東), and Baekje came to occupy Liaoxi (遼西) (in modern Tangshan, Hebei); the place that came to be governed by Baekje was called the Jinping District, Jinping County.”[3]
The Territory Section of Mǎnzhōu Yuánliú Kǎo (满洲源流考, “Considerations on the Origin of Manchu”) also summarizes Baekje’s territories, obviously including a portion of Liaoxi:[9]
The boundary of Baekje begins from the present-day Guangning and Jinyi provinces in the northwest and then crosses the sea in an easterly direction to arrive at the Joseon’s Hwanghae, Chungcheong, Jeolla, etc. provinces. Running east to west, Baekje’s territory is narrow; running north to south, it is long. Thus it occurs that if one looks at Baekje’s territory from the Liucheng and Beiping area, Silla is located in the southeast of Baekje, but if one looks from the Gyeongsang and Ungjin area of Baekje, Silla is located in the northeast. Baekje also borders Mohe in the north. Its royal capital has two castles at two different places in the east and west. Both castles are called “Goma.” The Book of Song says that the place governed by Baekje was called the Jinping district of the Jinping province. Tong-gao says that the Jinping province was located between Liucheng and Beiping of the Tang period.[10]
Korean Korguryo Kingdom: ( Manchuria)
Korean Baekje Kingdom: ( Kansai, China)
Geography lesson: Liaoxi is in Manchuria, not Eastern China, and the ambiguous records indicate Baekje might have held the territory for all of a hundred years.
And people like askkorean1 is the reason Korean nationalists are a joke and are better called Korean imperialists. Maps from Goryeo and Joseon show that Korea hasn’t extended north of the peninsula for more than a thousand years. It’s basically a giant land grab attempt. Saying the Han Chinese doesn’t exist is part of the strategy, since only if the Han Chinese and China do not exist can Koreans claim any of the territory.
They’re just as bad as the Imperial Japanese were – how ironic. But I guess people shouldn’t be surprised since Koreans were never that different from Japanese according to them. Both have the same incurable greed for continental land.
Thomas, if you disagree with other people opinion. Keep it too yourself. Don’t call people ” Imperialist”. Korean Korguryo and Balhae Kingdom did cover all of Manchuria like it or not. In Korean we call ” Kando Region”. Kando did belong to Koreans as well Daemado Island. If you cannot accept the truth. Then don’t call people Imperialist.
Right, because only people who agree with Korean ultra-nationalists like yourself should be able to speak. How ironic.
People like you are the first to bitch and moan whenever someone attacks Korean territorial integrity (ie Goguryeo), but when it comes to Chinese territorial integrity -> “China doesn’t exist.” You want others to keep their opinions to themselves, but when it comes to your own opinions, you can’t seem to shut up. What a hypocrite.
So no, I won’t keep my opinions to myself. You’re an ultra-nationalist/imperialist. Don’t like it? Too bad.
Here, watch the documentary.(7 parts)
With its evidence about Baekje’s remains in china and japan, it will make you think.
It is important to note that during Japan’s occupation of Korea, an entire department was created by the japanese aimed in distorting and destroying the high points of korean history.,digging up burial mounds and confisicating the artifacts and hiding them in Japan’s mainland.
Japanese even took some aspects for their own,, I saw some undeniably korean buddhist paintings
I saw some undeniably korean buddhist paintings hung up on the Japan section of the Metropolitan Art Museum.
Japan still has hundreds of reported Korean relics and entire libraries of korean history confiscated in Japan today.
In the other hand, the Chinese were masters of censoring beginning from the book burnings of Qin Shi Huang onwards. In much of Chinese written text, the emperors changed the names of surrounding kingdoms every time the emperor changed to make it look like China was the center of the world. In their text, it even describes British ambassadors as paying tribute to the QIng Dynasty.
Thus, it is an astronomical miracle that we have been able to gather the remains, records and evidence that is available to us so far. And honestly, it is more than enough to prove the existance of continental Baekje and Japan’s subordination, if not belonging as a part of Baekje. .
More and more evidence of this is being unearthed every year. Therefore, it is best to not adhere to what the Japanese and Chinese historians have been trying to feed to the world. I have only recently seen books published directly showing Baekje territory including the Liaoxi and Shandong.
Keep your ears open, is what im trying to say. Please dont be offended and feel free to criticize me AFTER watching the entire 7-part video I liked .
Oops i realized that link shows vid directly. Enjoy, heres the rest.
Concerning Imperialism
Imperialists :
All the White guys Plus Japan
Imperialees
All the Africans, Asians, Indians, Middle Easterners, Latinos, Minus Japan
How could Korean be imperialists like Japan thomas? Dont make sense
Wow, youtube videos from the ultra-nationalist Cheon1Son who believes in the Hwandan Gogi. You sure are convincing there.
Just because fringe Korean writers think that Korea ruled Asia 7,000 years ago and started all civilizations doesn’t mean it’s accepted anywhere else in the world. Japanese and Chinese historians may distort history but so do Korean historians. The Korean-centric revisionism that’s going on in Korea right now is nothing but an expression of its wounded nationalism, as pointed out by the Korean American historian Hyung Il-Pai.
Name one respected Western scholar who supports these “theories” of eastern China and southern Asia being colonies of Baekje. You can’t, because no one does. If you want to be specific about it, the only thing that could possibly be supported is that Baekje held Liaoxi (a part of Manchuria) for about a hundred years.
Brian said it best in far fewer words:
“Ha, that last map is a riot. Shouldn’t really trust sources that have “Sea of Korea” or divide Japan up as a Korean colony. Seems like nothing more than a PC banger’s fantasy.”
“Concerning Imperialism
Imperialists :
All the White guys Plus Japan
Imperialees
All the Africans, Asians, Indians, Middle Easterners, Latinos, Minus Japan
How could Korean be imperialists like Japan thomas? Dont make sense”
Imperialism isn’t limited to the 19th century.
What Korea is doing right now – claiming that parts of other people’s countries were their colonies – is an expression of cultural imperialism.
Korean nationalists shout “imperialism” whenever China/Japan claim that certain kingdoms based in Korea were Chinese/Japanese, but never consider that what they’re doing is exactly the same. Draw a map of ancient China or Japan that includes parts of Korea and Korean nationalists scream bloody murder, but other people are supposed to be silent when Korea does the same?
Hypocrisy.
Study and Read Korean History. Korean Peninsula and Manchuria are connected by People, Culture, and History. Nothing to do Nationalism. Telling you Korean Historical Truth.
Do you mind stating the source and reliability of the map from jebusrocks, as well as the time frame that this map is supposed to be representing.
Unfortunately in China, Korea, and Japan historical “truth” is too often determined by borders. However, there are some fantastic scholars in all three countries that do research not based on nationalistic pride. In East Asian academic sholarship Korea’s unique influence on Japan is generally accepted as a historical fact. King Seong of Baekje is usually attributed as sending a mission to the Yamato in 552 that introduced Buddhism. What is almost universally not accepted is that Korea held vast areas of Japan or Eastern China. Were there areas in which Korea had a strong influence? Certainly. Baekje “may” have controlled a very small portion of the Shandong penninsula, yet their historical remains and capitals are in and around Seoul, Gongju, Buyeo, and Iksan. Travel to Shandong peninsula is permitted, and the historical remains of this region just do not show strong evidence of being part of the Baekje dynasty. In Japan it is acknowledged by the Royal Family that they have some Baekje blood in the royal line. While this is true the Baekje nobilty that came to Japan did not resurect or establish an extenstion of the Baekje dynasty, instead intermixing with the Japanese nobility and what followed was a Japanese kingdom with Baekje cultural influences.
In ancient East Asia, China was long considered the eldest brother (or father), Korea the middle brother, and Japan the youngest brother. In diplomatic relations Korea was considered by China as their most enlightened neighbor. However, in the late 16th century the entire East Asian historical fabric began to shift. Toyotomi Hideyoshi harbored dreams of conquering Ming China and even India. His dream was one of a vast Japanese empire. He planned his invasion which would pass through Korea to attack China. The Joseon dynasty being a close ally to the Ming dynasty would not allow the Japanese to travel unhindered though their territory. This led to the Imjin War, where Japan reeked havoc on Korea and was eventually stopped by Korea’s powerful Navy, a huge Ming army, and peasant guerilla activities against the Japanese. Concluding the war, Ming China officially recognized Japan and Korea as equal for the first time in their peace treaty. Though Hideyoshi’s forces retreated back to Japan, Ming China was weakened and eventually fell to the Manchu in North China. Korean territory was devestated and Joseon dynasty became more isolated after the fall of their close ally. This isolation eventually led Korea to become labeled as the so called “Hermit Kingdom” in the 19th century.
Coming to the issue of Goguyeo, there is very strong historical evidence that their boundaries extended well into Manchuria. However, the map shown by (jebusrocks) would be more accurate in showing spheres of influence by Korea’s ancient dynasties, not actual territory. The Goguyeo capital was located in Jilin, China by the North Korean and Chinese border, and it eventually moved to modern day Pyongyang. This basic historical fact shows that the early Goguryeo dynasty controlled large areas of Manchuria, but there is no evidence that Goguryeo controlled “all” of Manchuria.
What is important here is that China, Korea, and Japan have a long rich history worthy of more research. I have been to all three countries, and spent much time particularly in China and Korea. I love learning more about all three countries, and their complex relationship over more than 2,000 years. By the way I am American, and have a degree in East Asian History. I would like to consider myself as unbiased, but who can ever be completely 100% objective.
*I included a link to my Flickr account of a collection of nearly all of my personal photos of historical remains of the ancient Baekje capitals.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kjmagnuson/sets/72157627883551284/
There you go, someone who is not a deluded Korean (or any other kind of) ultra-nationalist like askkorean1 talking about Korean history. Thanks Kyle.
According to the History of Paekche book by Jonathan Best, under the second part (translation of the Baekje Annals in Samguk Sagi), the entry for AD 392 clearly states that Gwanmiseong and Sokhyonseong etc (the ten Baekje cities captured by Gwanggaeto/Damdeok) are ON THE KOREAN PENINSULA, at Baekje’s northern border with Goguryeo at the time.
According to a Korea tourism website, Gwanmiseong is the same as Odu Mountain Fortress, and it is located at the seacoast, near the mouth of the Imjin River (refer to the small map showing Goguryeo’s southern expansion on page 34 of Atlas of Korean History).
In addition, I also scanned King Geunchogo’s section in the Annals (in Best’s book) and there is no mention of any Baekje settlement in Liaoxi or Shandong in China. Hope this info helps.
Rex, they are all recorded in a book called . Nowadays, in Shandong peninsula and nearby region, king of Baekje’s tombs has been excavated. Actually, there’s an evidence that prooves that Baekje was bigger than the map there. It’s the fact that I saw one person who asked people in Baotou, China and they said it used to be part of Baekje Territory. There were also buses which had two letters “Baek Je”. Actually, Chinese has already begun a project to destroy Corean history and make them into their history since 1996. Many of the Goguryeo and Baekje artifacts are getting destroyed though it was made with a scientific knowledge of having them last for thousands of years!
I disagree of what you just said on August 18, Thomas. Chinese are about to finish a project to destroy the Corean history and Japan is starting to put their imperialism into their textbooks. For Corea, it’s just that few people are making an opinion. Plus, there are lots of archaeological facts that supports them. During the time when Corea was part of a colony of Japan, Japanese burned 300000 Corea’s history books. It shows that lots of Corea’s historical evidence has been disappeared at that time.
The book I was talking about on the top was
Samguk Sagi
I add again, most recently, many artifacts are being excavated, in East and Northeastern China and the government there are just trying to hide the fact that there are. That is why it couldn’t be introduced by many people in the world.
I see some people say there aren’t any evidences that eastern China was Baekje’s colony. Well, let’s review the facts. First those Chinese history books like Book of Song. They CLEARLY state that Baekje held territories in China. If you deny this, either those historical authors were idiots who liked to lower their country and praise Korean history, or those facts WERE REAL. Duh. Those history books are wildly used even today people. Oh, also. Name a western historian that approve this? Well we can’t because they unfortunately don’t care about Korean history and don’t study it! Why? Because Korean history is crappy? No. Because Chinese and japanese distorted our history so much and advertised so much wrong facts about Korea to the west that people think Korea was Chinese and Japanese colony all the time. If Chinese and Japanese government did not distort Korean history so much, I probably could name 100s of historians who would believe in Baekje’s Chinese east coast colonization.
Oh yeah, by the way. How is even Chinese history that great? There was only like 4 properly united Chinese dynasty in history. Han, Jin, Sung and Ming. Out of those Sung has embarrasing history, no doubt. Xia? Fine if you can’t believe Baekje’s colonization of eastern china, we won’t believe Xia dynasty. Actually, name a RESPECTED WESTERN SCHOLAR who believes in that. Shang? Confucius’ 7th descendent (You are lucky I forgot the book name. i will find it and post it!) stated that it was built by East Yi people… guess who they are… Koreans! Ural Altaic northern brothers of Koreans joined too! Zhou? Eh, maybe. Then Chinese couldn’t even unite their nation for centuries. Oh by the way. The Dragon Emperor of Qin. Chinese historical books says he was Seo-Yoong, a westerner so not a Han chinese. Finally Han dynasty, which paid tribute to Xiongnu because your so-called hero Liu-bang lost to them. West han, let’s count that as han, same difference. Then three dynasties for few years then China is in turmoil! The Han Chinese are kicked to the north and Ural-Altaic people charge south! North Wei? It is not chinese, it is Xian-bei!
Later Yan? Xian Bei!!! And it got conquered by Korea’s Goguryeo too!
And all the Chinese northern dynasties were like that. Sui? The builder of sui dynasty was also… a Xian Bei!! HEHEHE!!! He was what, a prime minister of Xian bei nation, North Zhou! And you Chinese steal that history and say it is yours! Ok, just because those nations were built in China doesn’t mean you Han Chinese can claim it as yours. If you can do that, Stalin is American, Napoleon is German and Emperor Hirohito was Vietnamese. Hitler would be what a French? Nooooo! Hahahaha. The T’ang loyalty by the way was also Xian-bei blood! Oh yeah, Sui couldn’t even beat Korea with 1-5 million soldiers, and T’ang couldn’t conquer Goguryeo if it wasn’t for Silla. Next up is Sung… a weakling in Chinese history. Oh by the way, did you know emperor of Kim dynasty was from Silla, Korea? Yes he was! According to book of Kim and Book of Qing, it clearly states that. Oh are these fake books? Sorry but No. The emperors of both empires PERSONALLy led scholars to write these facts. So either they were idiots who raised the history of a nation smaller than them for no reason, or they were writing truth!
Next up is Liao…which belonged to Khitans duh. Kim? Combination of Korea and Mohe tribes. Yuan? The proud history of Mongols not Han Chinese. Finally Ming. Well Ming helped Korea during Imjin war so i won’t dis Ming, except remember, we helped you Han Chinese a lot during Ming Dynasty so be thankful to Koreans in that part too, Ok? We even sent almost all of our newly made musketeers to fight with you people, although unfortunately it got wiped out by Qing cavalry’s ambush and stuff. Anyway, next is Qing, which also clearly states that it was made by Manchu tribes, not Chinese. So when we wrap this up, how many “Powerful” Chinese nations were there? three. Yeah be proud of that. LOL
So let us return to Baekje. I am writing this in like five minutes so I will upload sources later. If you go to southern coast of eastern China, near border of Vietnam, there are people who use special device to crush rice and stuff. I forgot what it was called in English. It looks like See-saw. Well, unlike other countries’ similar device, the wooden column used to smash those rice and flour mixtures is only formed by one piece of wood instead of two. Yeah I am not a good…describer? anyway, this is only seen in Korean provinces where Baekje formerly stood.
The key hold shaped big tomb in japan. does it only exist in Japan? Many thinks so, but actually small verions of it can be easily seen in Korean regions where Baekje formerly stood.
The Chinese records state that Baekje had population numbering up to 6 million. Well, near 600 A.D, Goguryeo’s population was only about 3-4 million. How did a small nation like Baekje possibly have twice the size of Goguryeo’s population if it didn’t have any colonies out side? Goguryeo in 600s did shrink alot, but it was still powerful and strong. Strong enough to easily defeat 3 million soldiers from Sui.
Whoever here objects to the theory to Baekje’s colonization, listen and beware
Next time, I am bringing 100s of sources and more evidences from next time.
To Idiotic Koreans who dis their own history.
What good do you think you are doing to your nation? Think again. You are just making fool of yourselves. Plus, would you walk around the street with people thinking you as a person from an inferior race or a person from a country with history that once dominated the world? What is the use of comfortable life if you don’t have a nation? Don’t blabber things after reading few books. Those documenteries up there by the way, weren’t made by history nuts but proper TV station, evidences, researches and truth.
The old book of Tang also says
After Baekje fell, its territories were taken by Dolgual, Mohe and other continental nations. If Baekje didn’t have big naval territories, how would this happen?
Also in Book of Sui, it says that Baekje’s name came from having 100 states. That is twice the states U.S has! If Baekje was locked in Korea, this would have been impossible. Oh are these books fake? Well if they are, then prove Sima Qian’s records are right!!
To REX:
How much would Jonathan Best know? even if he is a great scholar, he only probably received fake history from Chinese and Japanese! Those two countries are still fabricating Korean history and are not letting any historians study archaeological items in Manchuria and Northern China that has close relation to Korea, because it just proves that Korean history is a superior as China’s or even better!I Examples? Balhae Empress’s tomb, Hongshan civilization pyramids, Hongshan civilization cities and alters and I can go on and on. But since I have to write my English essay… you are lucky.
Does a 14 year old like me have to fight for my country like this? China was not that strong people! Wake up! They never even barely touched Manchuria until Ming dynasty! They only lived under the great wall and now they claim even Goguryeo and Balhae, Buyeo, and Gojoseon as theirs! Hanja? We borrowed it so what? Now we have fur more better language with only 24 characters! jade artifacts? Chinese copied it from Korean civilization! (Hongshan civilization jade artifacts are much more close looking and related to Korean jade crafts INSIDE KOREAN PENINSULA). Gosh!
Evidence Finder and Shrekandy are the perfect examples of Korean internet nationalists – arrogant, insecure, ignorant of academic scholarship, and prone to insulting other people’s histories and cultures to satisfy their own wounded nationalism.
I’m sorry, but I have a hard time taking seriously kids whose arguments consist of – well, nobody outside of Korea supports our ideas about East Asian history, but that’s because there’s this giant conspiracy against Korea by China and Japan whose propaganda convinced everyone in the world to not care about Korea.
Do you think scholars outside of Korea are that retarded? That the same scholars who see through Chinese and Japanese propaganda, who condemn Mao for being a mass murderer, who condemn Japanese aggression and atrocities during World War II, just happen to not see through this giant conspiracy against Korea?
That’s what’s retarded.
Korean nationalist propaganda is of the same form as Japanese and Chinese propaganda, and that is why no one outside of Korea – and indeed no one inside of Korea aside from nationalists – buys into it.